Interview Transcript
Ombudsman Interview - Jeff Allan Show - 570 All News Radio - Special Needs Children
Jeff Allan (host):Now we’ve touched on this before when I first came back to my home province of Ontario from years out in the so-called “Habs” province. But when we first got here I remember talking about this back in 2005 and well it’s a subject of conversation again in a Canadian Press article – let me get right to it. Here’s the headline: “Ontario’s Ombudsman, André Marin, says parents of special needs children are still being asked to give their kids to children’s aid society to they can receive the care they need”.
And why don’t I ask our Ombudsman what this is all about and he joins us now –
André Marin thank you for joining me this morning.
Ombudsman: It’s my pleasure as always.
J: We did talk about this from your report in 2005 in some respect, did we not?
O: Yes we did.
J: And where are we now? In fairness to the provincial government, are we just short of funding? We’re short in every department or is there just no funding ever gone here? What is the situation here? Is it people need so much money to get the treatment for their kids and they’re just not getting it and it’s easier to put them somewhere else? Is that basically what’s happening?
O: Well what’s happened is, when we released our report about this virtually four years to the day we discovered that upwards of 60 families had been caught in this situation where they have children with special needs - could be autism or children with developmental disabilities which are extremely severe - and these parents need help – they need help to cope and support from the community and the Minister of Children and Youth Services turned them down and so the only way these parents could cope is to manufacture a protection issue and pretend that there were dangers to the child and then turn them over to the children’s aid societies which means parents would relinquish custody of their child. It’s an absolutely disgusting position to lead these parents in. Can you imagine having to give up custody of your child in order for them to get assistance? Now let me be clear about one thing – this is not a money issue. Children’s aid societies are funding by the province so for the ministry to say, “oh the money is dried up from the ministry, you’re going to have to hand over your child to the children’s aid society”, means the money is coming out of the right pocket instead of the left with this very fundamental string attached that you lose custody of your child. So it’s not an issue of money, it’s an issue of bureaucratic malaise, indifference in the ministry and to me it’s very shocking so what’s happened lately is that there has been a surge in these new cases. We have 19 complaints in our office of parents again having to relive this situation so we’re actually quickly to nip it in the bud and prevent a repetition of what we saw four years ago.
J: Now Children and Youth Services Minister Deb Matthews was quoted as saying her staff is working closely with your office to ensure no parents are forced to give up custody of their kids and she says she’s asked for regular updates from her ministry officials to make sure no child is ever taken into the care of the CAS because their parents need support. So are you suggesting that’s not happening?
O: Well I’m suggested parents are being forced to hand over custody of their children to CAS in order to have support. I spoke with the minister yesterday and she was very determined to fix these cases. We are working with the ministry to find solutions. Certainly I’m impressed with the political commitment to fix the problem but I think the ministry treads in technicalities. They’re say, well you know, when custody is handed over to the CAS on a temporary basis it doesn’t really count, well tell that to parents that lose control over their children. So I think that there’s political will to fix the problem nonetheless, there is a problem that needs to be fixed and I don’t think it’s helpful for the ministry’s senior bureaucrats to tread in semantics. I have in front of me written signed agreements by parents that have forfeited custody of their children to the CAS – it exists – whether or not it’s temporary, it shouldn’t happen because everybody knows that if you forfeit temporary custody, a permanent forfeiture is the next step so you’re one foot in the grave. It’s something like being pregnant – you’re not half pregnant, you’re pregnant or you’re not. And if you give away custody of your child, that’s gone and so it shouldn’t be happening.
J: So is that a failure of our healthcare system not to include these special needs kids?
O: I think it’s a failure in the Ministry of Children and Youth Services in discharging their mandate. It shouldn’t be up to these parents to be left in this completely impossible situation – to be caught between a rock and a hard place – having to decide I’m going to have to give away custody of my child in order for the child to receive the proper care. They should not be placed in that situation and it’s up to the ministry to develop a system that flags these cases that deals with them before parents are left at the doors of the CAS. Let’s be fair – it’s often said that the children’s aid societies in Ontario suffer from a lack of proper oversight and I still believe that’s the case, however, they’re not the bad guys in this problem. What they are doing is bending the rules a little bit because parents are absolutely desperate. So really the problem here lies in the lap of the Ministry of Children and Youth Services.
J: Thank you very much for your time.